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I guess its up to you what a monsterzero10 is.
BD: OK, so artificially created humans, seems a bit too much like RBW for me. Maybe it just ignites my dislike of that series if they will try something similar, and therefore throw crap on the alien-franchise. Perhaps if they'll get enough of the characters right and keep the alien-ness of it, that might work but I’m afraid that it’ll be too much like Blade Runner. Honestly I'm more worried than excited, especially with Scott in it.
I don't think that a spin-off series would be bad because it gives you more free space so to speak, and not be tied to what came before. Try new things and see how it goes. My interest is bigger towards that, than if they would announce a third prequel.
You mention in 1) a number of questions. I’m not sure if those need to be answered, not that they are dumb questions, but because there need to be some mystery in the franchise. Without some mystery, the fun is gone. One of the fun things is to imagine what could have been. A lot of the times your own answers are better than what the movie gives (prequels is an example). Maybe some of them can be answered, but then you got to come up with new mysteries that are smart, interesting, and that make sense. The pathogen is a fascinating thing that was introduced, but I think that they should leave it alone, no answers given. Sometimes I wonder about its origins, how it works, what it could create and so on, but I really don’t need that to be answered because it gives you less to think about
“D) Some kind of NEW and Unconnected Alternative Story/Plot or a Reboot of Sorts.”
Of all the alternatives, this seems the most interesting to me. If you try to come up with new things, you expand the franchise and keep it alive. Try to avoid the same old, been there done that sort of.
“1) Some Engineered Organism by either David or the Engineers/Space Jockey or other Race.
2) Some Natural Organism that Exists in the Cosmos that the Engineers/Space Jockey had attempted to Re-Engineer and then David too.
3) Something that has a Viral Origin or where the Pathogen is shown to have come from and that its USE will always eventually lead to the Xenomorph.”
The only alternative that I dislike of those is that it's something that David has got to do with. It makes it too close to human activity. Don't let humans directly or indirectly be responsible for the Xeno. Alien Covenant sort of did this, and that was one of the most disappointing things in the franchise to me.
Scott was alright for saying that you got to come in with new things, unfortunately he decided to replace the monsters with android-babbling which was very disappointing.
“the Prequels had Big Ideas that were too BOLD for the Fans”
I don't think that the ideas is what the fans were against, for me at least. When you say that it, reads to me that the audience weren't smart enough. Just because you like a movie doesn't make you a professor. Obviously, I'm not aiming this at you personally, but it annoys me if someone would have that attitude just because they like a movie. My dislike was that there were too few characters to care for, and that it became about the androids.
Xenotaris
Well, reduce the role of the androids (not get rid of them totally). As far as the Xenos are concerned, try to add things to their family-tree. They don't need to be Xenos, but maybe (and hopefully) far related relatives. Let's take birds, there are different kinds of birds (you can take dogs as an example too) so why can't the same be used for the Xeno-family? I would rather see something new, or a new variation of something, than the same thing over and over again.
BD:
Oh, I honestly believe that many of the ideas in Prometheus especially were very interesting. Unfortunately, the way they were handled were clumsy. Yeah, only the first three had that character development, but many of the cut scenes would have improved that. They cut character-development for run-time, which to me is a no-no. If you have lame characters, you have a lame movie, no amount of interesting ideas can save that. AR was cartoonish
“The other Issue is that i dont think MANY of the Fanbase would want to see the Xenomorph relegated to a Lesser Role... The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN.”
It depends on the execution, you can make it a bit different and as far as I know many liked the Engineers. You have people that are traditional Xeno-ists, but I also think that there are people that would like to see expanded things, but probably not see it taken over by a disappointed android (that is where I stand). Some people like to see new ideas, but many got annoyed by the prequels being taken over by an android. To me that's a bigger problem, but I put that on Scott and Fox. Big and bold ideas? Many might found them interesting, but unfortunately the execution was poor, and it was too much about David. My point is that the fans are not to blame, but rather the execution and the focus of the movie.
They can have androids (say like David and Bishop) and cyborgs (let's take Robocop as an example), but they shouldn't be what the movie is about, because that's lame. Make them interesting and important to the story, but don't let them take over everything, like what happened in the prequels.
Xenotaris: I can imagine it being like C3PO in Star Wars, he had an important role in translating things and in that way helped the rest. I think that something similar could be used in Alien, as far as the androids go. The androids can be used in important parts but not be what it's about, just like C3PO was of importance but not The story in Star Wars.
About the relatives still being Xenomorphs I disagree. It's like birds, you have for example Owl, Humming-birds, Canada-Goose, and so on. You could have the same with the Xenos, but to call each-one a Xeno just because they are related is a bit of a stretch I think.
Yeah, I doubt that the Engineers will be in the new movies, unfortunately. My worries are that we'll get a lot of the same old, but well-done characters can make up for a lot of that. I'm not interested in seeing the monster from 1979 again.
Also another point, xenomorph relatives are essentially still xenomorphs with a different shape.
Like Big Dave said I don't think the Engineers are going to make an appearance in the newer movies.
Also what do you have in mind for a new creature to replace the xenomorphs and its relatives?
Thoughts_Dreams
Well that is a one eighty, I thought you would despised the main character being an android because they aren't human?
BigDave
What about in-between ALIEN and ALIENS? I mean it could be a self contain stand-alone movie or possibly a trilogy. Why didn't the company try their luck on LV-426 when Ripley was asleep for 57 years
Xenotaris,
Semantics, but much of the Showa vs. Heisei discussion happened after 1998 when the Heisei series became legally available in the States.
Even then, however, those topics don't underline toxicity or gatekeeping (the latter of which is a term that didn't exist back then and has only been manufactured today) but merely fandom discourse.
Thoughts_Dreams
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around an ALIEN movie that lacks Androids and Xenomorphs. You know two aspects that make an ALIEN movie an ALIEN movie!
What could possibly replace the xenomorphs? The Neomorph and Deacon are more or less xenomorph relatives and thus follows all of the xenomorph tropes being eyeless parasitoids with an additional set of jaws. So the Prequel creatures are technically NOT new monsters but simply a variation of a classic beast.
Its no different from the Godzilla movies where Godzilla is basically the same monster with a new paint job. So tell me who could possible replace the xenomorphs?
probably lost, this post was made during the early years of this website back when it was made to promote Prometheus
Eh, not to be that guy but toxic Toho kind of started the gatekeeping first when Godzilla 1998 was released and before then you had Showa vs Heisei fans
the monster in the 2nd teaser might be ebirah being judo-flipped across the ocean.
mothra returns to the monsterverse with
mothra vs. Amano Shiratori.
its like uh.....
errr........
well its like....
since theirs a monsterzero9.... like, what would a monsterzero10 be?
I guess.
.......
FAN ART!!!!
ITS A KIRYU!!!!
MYA!!!!!!
Mothra should be there too.
you do make a point there
I mean, it's not the worst toxic fandom in the world (that would be the fandoms of Star Wars and Sonic plus some ship factions of the Stranger Things fandom).
No it’s fine, I usually confuse people when I say things
I think this’ll be pretty good, the animation (based off the trailer) looks promising, and hopefully the story too, unless they pull whatever confusing crap they did on the last few episodes of Edgerunners or have it hang on a cliffhanger like Arcane, which wasn’t bad mind you
But all in all, yea it looks pretty good
Would be terribly unconventionally if they didn’t tho
Uhhh Chris, where are the links and poster concepts?
Cool Godzilla Oh OK, now I get it. Sorry, I sometimes don't get complex words.
WarZone I think this battle is over. This poll was created for quite some time now.
Heh, nice expression LOL! But seriously, what do you mean by that?
I think some of the Foundations and Ideas in the Prequels where Interesting with Potential but they were Executed a bit Poor and the Character Depth was not that Strong.... but only the First 3 Movies had that.... i mean who Cared about the Alien Resurrection Characters?
The other Issue is that i dont think MANY of the Fanbase would want to see the Xenomorph relegated to a Lesser Role... The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN.
But this is what SELLS.... its what has done the MARVEL FRANCHISE well and i think this is what maybe we shall see with the ALIEN FRANCHISE.
I dont think we would get to see the Engineers again... maybe we will Discover like Abandoned Ships or Architecture of theirs but i dont think we will see a ALIVE version of them again.
I think that the A.I will play a Role... we will see Synthetics, both Robotic and Organic, and i think it will be Teased of a Great Threat they could Pose, i dont see this ASPECT ever going away.... but i dont think it will STEAL the Lime-Light like David did with the Prequels.
Regarding the TED TALK a lot of this was the SET UP for Weyland and his Ambition to Create Life and Immortal Life, it would have gone HAND in HAND that his Ambition would go as FAR as his own Quest for IMMORTALITY which lead to his Downfall on LV-223. I think this Shadows the Engineers own Quest for IMMORTALITY too that lead to their Down Fall too.
His GOAL and ways that this could Potentially be Obtained in Reality would lead to a Situation of the RICH and Privileged to have such Reward while then we have the Problem of TOO MANY like Normal Humans living Longer... while also the ADVENT of more Advance A.I that becomes Self Aware would become a Massive Risk to Humanity.
Both of these Potentials coming even Regardless of EVER going to LV-223/426, but what we got was going to these Places in Search of the First Thing (Immortality) leads to the Chaos caused by the Second Thing (A.I)
These things seem to be something the TV Series will touch upon.... but who knows what the MOVIE will Focus on... i have Discussed this in the Thread about the Movie.
"What would you like to see in the franchise to keep it alive? Do you mean the monster itself? The role it has?"
Well it Depends on HOW and WHAT the Movie has for WHAT the Xenomorph is!
1) Some Engineered Organism by either David or the Engineers/Space Jockey or other Race.
2) Some Natural Organism that Exists in the Cosmos that the Engineers/Space Jockey had attempted to Re-Engineer and then David too.
3) Something that has a Viral Origin or where the Pathogen is shown to have come from and that its USE will always eventually lead to the Xenomorph.
From what we have seen so FAR in ALL the Movies which Includes the AVP ones, then i have to agree with Ridley Scotts Comment.... "there is only so much Chest Bursting and Snarling you can do"
We have a Organism that Procreates via the Stages we have seen and then it KILLS, which could be to PROCREATE its Species.....
But its then WHAT? Do we Evolve it or Explore it to be able to Communicate? to Build Better Worlds and its own Bio-Ships? If this is done RIGHT then maybe it could work.... if its done Wrong we could have a Rubbish Merger of the BORG and the BUGS from Starship Troopers.
So i think that Ridley Scott was Correct in that you can ONLY do so much with the Xenomorph where you then have to look at WHO had Created them and WHY or for WHAT other kind of Purpose can you gain from them apart from having Deadly Killing Machines!
I think the Xenomorph has more of a Risk of being Over-saturated and Exposed. And so while you can USE them, the Focus has to go towards WHO had Created them and WHY or WHY would someone want to Obtain them beyond using the Eggs to KILL OFF say a Target.
In HINDSIGHT the Prequels had Big Ideas that were too BOLD for the Fans and would have Lessened the Role of the Xenomorph. The Xenomorph and LV-426 Origins including the Space Jockey should have remained a MYSTERY.
We should have gone to another World were there are Eggs... maybe this is WHAT the Movie would do... but again the Xenomorph can only be USED so much in the Capacity we have seen before it will get STALE... in my Opinion that is.
@Thoughts_Dreams
In regards to the A.I Element i think that RS was looking to touch upon it in a Number of Ways, which would also INCLUDE the Consequences of Artificially Creating Life, which is NOT just limited to Synthetic/Robotic. It seems that Noah Hawley's show will involve the Creation of Augmented Humanoids so much more closer to Replicants, who then we shall see that ONE of these will have the CONSCIOUSNESS/SOUL of ONE of the Female Lead Characters.
But in Regards to the MOVIE... we just dont have any INFORMATION.... The ONLY thing we can Guarantee is it will have the XENOMORPH and i think it will be something SIMILAR or the SAME as we have seen in the Franchise. And that it does-not Connect to the Prequels or Ripley.... which maybe means that the Events are NOT like Directly Connected.... so that the Prequels or other Movies would NOT go and Directly Connect to the NEW MOVIE....
This Does-Not mean that it would IGNORE the Prequels... or the Franchise, its going to be Interesting as to IF/HOW it would Connect to the TV Series as this seems a BIG CONFLICT.
Here is a WAY we can look at the Potential.
1) If the Movie will NOT have the Prequels (or TV show) as Canon, then we have the Avenue to ask the Following.
*Will the Movie Cover a Visit to LV-426 and the Derelict prior to ALIEN?
*What remains of the Derelict after ALIENS and prior to ALIEN Resurrection?
*Was the Derelict the ONLY such Ship with that Cargo, was there others and WHERE are they?
*Where did the Space Jockey Obtain the Xenomorph?
2) If we have the Prequels as Canon then it Opens up the Following as well as the above!
*What becomes of the remaining Xenomorph Eggs on Planet 4 after the Events of Alien Covenant?
*What becomes of those Face Huggers that David has on the Covenant Ship and WHAT would have Proceeded where he goes Next?
*What other Horrors are on LV-223?
*What other Worlds has the Pathogen been USED ON and what has become of these?
*What is the Basis of the Pathogen and its Origin.
I do think the Emphasis would be on the Xenomorph and NOT the other kinds of Horrors in regards to the Black Goo and Engineers.
My Money would be on either....
A) We will Explore another Place/World were there are other Xenomorphs either in a Time-Line before ALIEN or after ALIENS..... which will Conflict Alien Resurrection well Potentially.
B) We will go back to LV-426 either prior to ALIEN or after ALIENS...
C) The Events will Connect to HOW/WHERE we get the Xenomorph in the TV Series and will be SET like after the TV Series Time-Line.
Or Maybe...
D) Some kind of NEW and Unconnected Alternative Story/Plot or a Reboot of Sorts.
Im saying that one group of the fandom is not more toxic than another. The reason that a specific group is perceived as more toxic than others is bias.
Jonesy: I like the TED-talk, since it explains his motivations and shows that he's been interested in it for a long time. They should have had some of that in Prometheus, so it doesn't become something like he said. “Through out my life I’ve pondered why we are here” I think that is some of the lines by Weyland in Prometheus. By having something from the TED-talk you show a younger Weyland, which backs up what he says as an older person.
BD: “It seemed that RS Plan was to Explore more about A.I but in a way that gets us to look that A.I in his Opinion does-not mean ROBOTS as per say. He saw the Replicants as A.I and i am sure he would have indicated the Engineers in Prometheus are A.I as in terms of Engineer versions of Replicants.... it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too…”
That seems to be too much like Raised By Wolves. As far as I can tell, the reviews of it haven't been that good. I've read about it, and it seems to be like with the prequels, good ideas but flawed execution. With Ridley involved, it seems like this would be the result… again.
“it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too…”
It would give too much importance to David, and we would get another Alien Covenant. It would be too much flag-waving to David… again. The type of humans that would have been created could be in it, but reduce the role of David so even if he created them he should be out of the movie after that. At least David shouldn't be the focus. Looking at Raised By Wolves, I fear that it would maybe have been mainly about Walter and David… again and we would have another disappointment. I'm afraid that this is what will happen to the TV-show too.
As far as bringing in the Xeno, that doesn't need to be the case to make it a good show. They can have new monsters and the Engineers, it depends on how it's executed. Well, a follow-up to Covenant seems very unlikely, but that is a good thing if you ask me. Some people would like to see a follow-up, but then the alien-fandom is a divided thing. I might disagree with a lot of prequel-ists, but I try to not act like I'm better than them. Maybe I went off-topic here?
You mention the Xenomorph, I think that they can have new monsters related to the Xeno but have some new things. I wouldn't mind it being Xeno-less, but have some cousins, or maybe further related... you get the idea.
My main worry is that it'll be too much about androids and that there will be weak human characters, which is what we got with the prequels. Perhaps it's for the best if Scott would stay away?
Xenotaris: It depends on how the character is written and executed and how the human characters are done. There got to be a balance, otherwise we'll get the same disappointment like we got with the prequels. Just because one of the main-characters is an android doesn't mean that it'll be bad, there are other things that matter too.
BD: I doesn't got to have the Xeno in it to be good. Focus on the story and human characters. They usually get the monsters and the look right, so I'm not worried about that. Hopefully we'll get some new monsters as a part of it.
As far as Ridley's involvement, that's where I'm worried that he will try to steer this into his android-verse. He already massed it up with the prequels and RBW. I hope that someone will tell him no, as far as affecting the story. Keep him with the art-department.
“Ridley Scott had intended the Prequels to be DIRECT CANON.…”
Fox and Scott messed it up, so I don't want them to be canon, but rather interesting failures. They can look back at them for interesting parts to have in future projects, but not be in the official alien time-line.
“ it looks like it does-not Directly Follow any Events of the Prequels or the Ripley Saga of Alien Movies.”
That's a good thing, there's time for something new. Just because they don't follow the prequels doesn't mean that they need to go back to what's 40 years old. Hopefully they'll add more things.
I wouldn't have liked Blompkamps thing or Giler and Hill’s stuff. They both ignored Alien 3, which I like. Maybe it would have been better than Alien 3, but I doubt it.
About the Alvarez-project, I hope that they take it as an opportunity to introduce new things. What they shouldn't do is to have lame human characters, an over-importance on androids, and keep it too familiar.
“My concerns is i dont think there is a LOT of Miles with the ALIEN Gimmick.... “
Have versions of it, but don't show them too much and let the focus be on other things. What would you like to see in the franchise to keep it alive? Do you mean the monster itself? The role it has?
Hi, I'm also a newbie and I also really like Star Wars
Anyways, since there were no updates, I will stop making updates for now.
