MUTO...Insect or Reptile?

This topic was brought up earlier this week.

That being said, I don't think it's reptilian or insect, but something that's been lost to time.

I always have been good at topics :D

Much like a dinosaur that was neither reptilian or bird. Just something lost to time. Interesting. It's all incredibly interesting.

I think the most alien thing with the Muto's are those eyes......they look pretty different to me......almost mechanical. The other body parts and anatomy look like a hodgepodge from a scavenger hunt. Looks pretty decent though from the brief looks we may have seen from the trailers.

I don't think it is an insect or a reptile. But if the MUTOS are mutated from an insect or a reptile, well that's a diferent story, but I don't think they are mutated from real life animals because it is Massive"Undenified" Terrestrial Organism.

I think the MUTO's are both reptilian and insect.

I used to think they were types of arthropods, but then I found out the they had complete skeletons. I'm guessing they're reptiles, or at least some sort of synapsid

It's more of a giant parasite, or germ, so neither.

Its actually been confirmed theyre mammals

HinikunaGoji

Where?

Wait WHAT how are they mammals?!?

QuinnTKO

Apparently the idea of them being mammals comes from statements from Gareth Edwards and other people involved with the film, however their statements mentioned that certain attributes of the MUTOs (like their movements) were based on mammals, not that they were mammals. So as of now the MUTOs technically don't have an official classification.

My best guess is that the MUTOs are sort of there own thing, they don't fall in to any known classification and are instead an unknown type of ancient creature that falls in between vertebrates and invertebrates, which is why they share traits from both (such as having an internal skeleton, a possible exoskeleton, and insectoid traits). 

Yeah I still think they are just really big parasites, the movie even said they are so I have no idea how they could be mammals.

Guillaume Rocheron was quoted in Godzilla: The Art of Destruction as saying that he "would classify [the MUTOs] as mammals because they have flesh and bone and muscles."

Its in the art book

HinikunaGoji

Flesh and bone and muscles wouldn't immediately classify them as mammals, as birds, reptiles, amphibians, and most fish have those traits as well. That description would mean that they're a Chordate of some sort (one that strangely exhibits insectoid traits).

The main traits of mammals are that they're warm-blooded, most are born alive (with the exception of monotremes), and the young are fed milk produced by the mother's mammary glands, which aren't traits exhibited by the MUTOs.

They also wouldn't be Tetrapods (which mammals are), as Tetrapods have (or their ancestors had) four limbs. The MUTOs have eight limbs (with two of the male's limbs forming wings).

SasquaDash

Thats not my piont, its that the designer says theyre mammals, then they are mammals

So, narrowing it down, if they're Chordates, they would possibly be an unknown type of animal that branched off around here:

Their insectoid traits could be a result of convergent evolution and possible mutations.

SasquaDash

Its not about actual evolutionary facts because pretty much all of that is out the window. His design philosophy was to take a mammal and make it look as far from one as possible.

Hes alreafy said what he designed, his comments are very open ended sounding, but ill side with the artist

HinikunaGoji

They couldn't really be true mammals though, because, like Godzilla's species, they were stated to be around during the Permian (in the MonsterVerse timeline), before true mammals existed, so at most they would be Therapsids (which wouldn't explain the more insectoid traits).

Their designs may have some mammalian influence, but they deviate a lot from mammals, with their insect-like life cycle and appearance, that I don't think they could really be classified as mammals. (I know that using actual biology and evolution to classify a fictional giant monster is kind of pointless, but still.) 

I guess they could be classified as a fictional, unknown type of multi-limbed "insect-like" vertebrate and that the group they evolved from was lost to time.

Yeah I don't really care what they are they're cool either way.

SasquaDash

One problem i have with that comes from the Kotm novelization, in which the facility that Mokele Mbembe in housed in, in which human civilization is found going much farther back then possible. Also how about Behemoth?

Plus there is the Atlantis ruins in KoTM. Honestly the time line makes no sense, and  mainly because of Godzilla Awakening. Because its already been established that in the MV humans and maybe even others went farther back then they should have according to paleontology. And another thing, is the permian extincrion is set as the time titans went dormant but we know humans and titans have interacted, and we havent really had much to say that titans woke up a bunch of times.

Ive stopped trying to understand the timeline or even where the titans came from, just accepted it as this thing that is fun and doesnt make sense.

Singular Point is the godzilla i watch went i want to think about science

HinikunaGoji 

The Permian extinction wasn't the event that caused the Titans to go dormant, it was stated that early titans like Godzilla's species and the MUTO's species dated back to the Permian (not all of the titans originated during the Permian). The Permian extinction diminished the energy source on the planet's surface that some of the early titans fed on, which led some to go deeper underground (the Hollow Earth) to be closer to that energy source. The end credits of King of the Monsters mentions that the titans went dormant closer to the modern age. It states that most of the titans went dormant and stopped coexisting with humanity during the ice age (so around 115,000 to 10,000 years ago). It was never stated that humans in the MonsterVerse lived during the Permian or prior to the late Cenozoic, the credits of KOTM state that there was a mysterious advanced civilization that coexisted with the titans and predated some of the oldest known civilizations, existing before the ice age, and before the titans went into hibernation, but the civilization was destroyed when the Titans waged war on humanity and themselves. The remnants of humanity pretty much had to start over without the resources that they had before, resulting in more primitive civilizations (the ones from the Paleolithic and Neolithic). Due to the decrease of Titan activity, stories that were passed down from the survivors were eventually viewed as myths. It was also hinted that Godzilla and the other titans would occasionally come to the surface throughout history (from 20,000 to modern day) and sightings of them fueled the legends about them. Specifically, the battle between Dagon and MUTO Prime happened during the 11th Century BCE (around 1100 to 1000 years ago) and Titanus Scylla inspired the "Scylla" mythology of Ancient Greece, meaning she was active during that time period. 

SasquaDash

But nothing is actually confirmed, and the whole collective materials including the novelizations is all im going off of. And because it implies theyre knowledge is wrong about the world.

And my main point of arguing that the Muto is a mammal is ecause of the what the artist and creator said it is and there intent in making the animal. And it shares many qualities that could easily put it mammalia, and because the creator said so i'll try not to theorize on theyre choices.

Plus MV isn't that invested in Science or Accuracy at this point, so ill debate as much as possible about the artistic stuff, and the intent, but not on prehistory, Archeology, or paleoentology, because it doesnt feel very relevant. 

So I stand by my point that Mutos are mammals because thats how they were designed, not whether or not thats realistic.

HinikunaGoji

I'm going off of what the films presented (mainly the redacted text and news stories shown in the credits of King of the Monsters) and what's presented in the comics, like Godzilla: Aftershock. I know that the MonsterVerse isn't going for scientific accuracy (which given that it's about giant mythological monsters, why would it), but it doesn't completely ignore and rewrite Earth's history (just alters certain things for the story). 

I'm not trying to start a debate and I apologize if I'm come off as a bit too combative, I'm not trying to be. I'm just going off of what the series is presenting and giving my thoughts on it, like what the MUTOs could potentially be based on their appearance and lifecycle. 

I mean this isn't the first time that paleontology and biological classifications were given the middle finger in a godzilla/kaiju film.

In Godzilla 1954, a paleontologist off all people ignorantly claimed that Dinosaurs died out 4 million years ago, in reality they died off 66 million years ago.

Angurius is labeled as an ankylosaurus despite not looking anything like an ankylosaurus as side from being an armored reptile, mutations aside, too me the Angurius resemble more of a basal archosaur.

King of the Monsters lumping every kaiju in the same genus including an Alien!

Pacific Rim establishing dinosaurs were failed kaiju and died off immediately upon their arrival to earth is laughable since dinosaurs were know for being an evolutionary success story and ruled the earth for roughly 160 million years and the fact that dinosaurs are still alive through their descendants the birds. Critical Research Failure!

Now G.H. Man will likely get on my case about this but whatever. Some of my pet peeves when movies try to use science in a half-hearted way is misclassification, misrepresenting evolution (A can of worms for a later topic), dinosaurs are aliens and mutations explain everything

Yeah there's no point arguing they are just fictional giant monsters, and I don't really care what they are they're still cool creatures. In a way all of you are correct, but they aren't even real so it doesn't matter.

True they are fictional, however there is nothing wrong with debating about these things. Because fictional things can be about serious real-life topics like take the original Godzilla's aesop. Its the horrors of the atomic bomb, imagery from the 1954 movie evokes images of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the nuclear testing in the bikini atoll with Lucky Dragon 7. Godzilla is a victim of the atomic bomb as well as being the embodiment of it

Xenotaris

"Pacific Rim establishing dinosaurs were failed kaiju"

I thought the implication was that the first attempt at a kaiju invasion caused the extinction of the dinosaurs (in the Pacific Rim universe), not that the dinosaurs were kaiju.