Bits Feed (Page 378)
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@monsterzero9
Dude, really? This is an awesome figure!
I like that he actually answered the question.
Also I do not like the idea of saying that movies that aren’t R rated are censored. Neither I like the Idea of saying R is what makes a film good or fully realizes the artistic part of the film. Most R rated films are that because they tend to indulge themselves and use questionable things to draw in an audience. Honestly, I think a practice of restraint is healthy.
This is really cool. unique and fresh.
That's a big list of movies. I only have the Criterion collection
That's very true
Godzilla and Kong appeal a lot to children, they make up a big part of the audience for these films.
As cool as an R-rated Godzilla or Kong movie would be, I feel like it would end up alienating a huge part of it's audience, which could, unfortunatly, cause the film to not perform that well.
“This is a wonderful fan theory and all, but where is this in the movie?”
In Godzilla 2014, it is stated that Godzilla and the MUTOs (and the other titans) feed on nuclear radiation. In King of the Monsters, It is stated that the titans emit an energy source that heals the environment and that because of this energy new life emerges wherever they appear. In Godzilla vs Kong, they introduce a mysterious energy source within the Hollow Earth, they also explain that the Hollow Earth energy is similar to energy readings from Godzilla and the other Titans, indicating a connection between them. While they don’t flat out say it in the films, it’s pretty easy to make a connection between these three plot points (an example of show, don’t tell). If anything, by doing this the MonsterVerse is doing exactly what an extended universe should do, it’s building up the world piece by piece and creating a bigger story. If the Marvel Cinematic Universe explained all of its plot points all at once there would be much of a franchise.
“Nowhere in Son of Godzilla is Godzilla's radiation mentioned. Nowhere in the context of the movie is Godzilla's nuclear power drawn attention to. The movie can't say, "radiation makes you a great Dad," because that's not in it.”
Radiation is never mentioned in the story, but according to your own words, Godzilla is always a metaphor for nuclear weapons. So just because it’s not out right stated that somehow means that it doesn't apply in that certain scenario? If Godzilla always represents nuclear weapons, no questions asked, then wouldn’t the idea of him raising a son be the equivalent of a nuclear warhead having a baby?
“But you know what is in Son of Godzilla, All Monsters Attack and Godzilla vs. Hedorah? Topics of post-war Japan--Alternate subjects and themes that were directly effected by the events following their bombing.”
Wait, you stated that those movies ignore the anti nuclear theme, but then you state that they focus on post-war Japan and the issues that “were directly effected by the events following their bombing”. So... which is it? Are the films connected to the atomic bomb or not?
“I think Godzilla: King of the Monsters would've been better off had it avoided the topic altogether”
So wait, you completely trash on Godzilla vs Kong because it lacks a message and in your eyes “lacks substance”. But now you're saying that King of the Monsters shouldn’t have had a message?
“but the culprits of this act/story is an America superpower that caused another country's trauma to need Godzilla. It's rather disgusting in a way and frankly crosses some lines I find impermissible.”
Honestly, all that I’m getting out of this conversation is that you really dislike the MonsterVerse movies because they are made in America. If they were made by Toho I feel like you probably wouldn’t be so negative towards them. Yes, the MonsterVerse has its flaws, I’m not denying that, however relentlessly ripping the films apart while completely ignoring flaws that exist in the Toho films is pretty one-sided and hypocritical. I absolutely love the Toho films (if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be here talking about them) but even I’ll admit that they have their issues .
I don’t want to start an argument, but the fact that you seem to be looking down at other fans and acting like you’re the main authority of this franchise is somewhat irritating. Most of your comments on this subject have come off as kind of condescending to not only the MonsterVerse films and their filmmakers, but the fans of this franchise as well. In your last response you keep mentioning that other fans don’t get something or that they don’t understand a certain issue, and because of that you seem to act like you’re above them, in a way it’s almost insulting. Arrogant attitudes and Gate-Keeping have caused a lot of damage to various fandoms and I don’t want to see the Godzilla fandom suffering the same fate.
Again, I don’t want to fight (let’s leave that to the monsters), but I feel like we can have debates without acting like a purist and putting people down. Honestly, there’s so much crazy fighting and awful crap happening in the world, it doesn’t need to crossover into our fandoms...
I don’t think that justifies an R rating. The material would get one but would it be a good movie? Gojira isn’t R and has done the best job.
"it has sparked conversation for the specifics behind Godzilla's representation. I believe they're at least topics worth thinking over."
I believe so too.
"There are different types of radiation, Solar radiation does play a role in plant growth (and the creation of new life). The “radiation” that the titans emit was never stated to be nuclear radiation, it’s probably meant to be a new form of radiation that is emitted by the titans (possibly linked to the energy source within Hollow Earth). Godzilla and the other titans feed on the harmful nuclear radiation and expel a more beneficial energy source that helps to heal the environment, similar to how trees absorb carbon dioxide and create oxygen through photosynthesis."
This is a wonderful fan theory and all, but where is this in the movie? See the problem here is the movie refuses to make any distinction between harmful radiation or not. Even if this theory were the case, then Dougherty and Shields needed to make it clearer. As it stands, it just sounds like he thinks radiation is a life giving force. He even uses inaccurate information about Chernobyl to try and prove his point in the audio commentary--Which leads me to believe he was referring to nuclear radiation.
"To say that Dougherty’s film ruined the franchise’s message by being “Pro Nuclear or Pro Radiation” is inaccurate and (in some cases) false."
I never said Dougherty ruined the "franchise's message," as reductive of a title as that is for something so vast. I don't think he or another, singular bad movie out of a 36 film series has the power to ruin it. But I would argue he may not understand it as well as he's convinced.
"Godzilla vs King Ghidorah has a plot point where the Japanese government sends a nuclear submarine to create/re energize Godzilla so that he can protect them from Ghidorah, that could be misinterpreted as Pro Nuclear (hell, if you want to get technical, Godzilla was originally a living metaphor for the atomic bomb, yet he became a superhero in the later Showa films)."
The problem with this rebuttal is context. In Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, the plan is concocted by a Japanese nationalist who is ostracized by the other characters for having the audacity to own nuclear weapons. It's not seen or written as an overwhelming positive, it's written as a commentary on the dangers of nationalism and capitalistic power growing so out of control that a singular company can own a weapon as dangerous and destructive as a nuclear bombs. Furthermore, the plan ends up not working because the narrative required this character's fallacy to be highlighted
As for Godzilla being a hero--Indeed. But in each case the movies still represented something that was born of the Japanese post-war and when the topic of nuclear proliferation arouse, it never had anything nice to say about it. Take something as thin as Godzilla vs. Megalon, for example. An entire war breaks out because of nuclear testing, which was always a great fear Japan had during the Cold War. A shift in character does not equate a lack of meaning for the Japanese culture.
"The topic of Nuclear energy use has changed a lot since the 50s, back then nuclear energy was seen as only being a weapon of mass destruction, however in more recent years nuclear energy has been used in a somewhat more beneficial way, being used as an energy source to power civilization."
I'm not here to debate whether or not nuclear power is beneficial. The fact is, like it or not, beneficial nuclear power is not what Godzilla represents and never has. To do so is to ignore the point of his genesis to begin with and also ignore how a different culture sees nuclear energy. Otherwise we're culturally appropriating an IP we could have merely created from scratch if we really want to.
Japan simply has not had the same luck with nuclear power as other countries. In 1995, days before the release of Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, an event occurred at the Monju Nuclear Power Plant. Although no radiation was released, a sodium leak caused a complete reactor shut-down. The Power Reactor and Nuclear Fuel Development Corp. covered up the extent of the damage, causing outrage over how nuclear energy was being managed. [Source]
Numerous other issues happened at Japanese power plants culminating the famous Fukushima Nuclear disaster of 2011. The event was the greatest nuclear disaster since Chernobyl and caused the shutdown over over 50 nuclear reactors. [Source] Only 9 reactors now operate in Japan today. [Source] And with the issues still going on in Chernobyl today, the issue of nuclear power's stability is still in flux, especially in Japan.
"...however he also states that he wants to find a beneficial use for it, stating that if he does he would be the first to show it off to the world."
But he never does. Effectively, the movie treats his hope cynically. Serizawa died before that naivety could be put in action.
"however in modern day, Japan uses nuclear power plants to power their towns and cities. Things change, and modern Japan isn’t as anti nuclear as it was in the past."
As I mentioned above, this isn't very accurate, with only 9 of 50 reactors currently operating. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt for a moment--Let's pretend all 50 reactors are working today. That doesn't change the fact that the Godzilla is a warning built off of trauma. Just because the world accepts something dangerous as useful doesn't mean there can't or shouldn't be a warning of its use. Even as Japan had more active reactors in the 1990s, the Godzilla series was still harping on their use and warning of their dangers. Ironically, those warnings came to fruition in March of 2011 in Fukushima.
"...however the Toho Godzilla movies did the exact same thing. Like I stated earlier, Godzilla started out as a terrifying metaphor for the destruction caused by nuclear weapons, however Toho quickly turned him into a planet protecting superhero. If you want to dig deeper into the Showa films, you’ll find that they have the same “issues” that the MonsterVerse has. Godzilla defends the world from aliens (I guess that means nuclear weapons can protect us from invaders), Godzilla fights Hedorah (I guess nuclear weapons can stop pollution), Godzilla raises a son (radiation apparently makes you a great Dad)."
And here's the next issue that fans tend to misconstrue and it's no different here. Most Godzilla movies designate a theme to itself, but it doesn't always outright deal with nuclear proliferation and radiation. The difference is Godzilla: King of the Monsters decided to bring topics of nuclear weapons and radiation into the fold of the story. Radiation is not a topic brought up by the characters or story in Godzilla vs. Gigan, or Hedorah or Son of Godzilla. They decide to forego those ideas in favor of larger themes that may or may not have been more relevant to Japan at the time.
Godzilla: King of the Monsters, however, not only dives headfirst into certain taboos in the franchise, but the culprits of this act/story is an America superpower that caused another country's trauma to need Godzilla. It's rather disgusting in a way and frankly crosses some lines I find impermissible.
Honda and Fukuda were wise. Nowhere in Son of Godzilla is Godzilla's radiation mentioned. Nowhere in the context of the movie is Godzilla's nuclear power drawn attention to. The movie can't say, "radiation makes you a great Dad," because that's not in it. But Godzilla: King of the Monsters can say, "nukes will save the world," because that's literally what happens.
But you know what is in Son of Godzilla, All Monsters Attack and Godzilla vs. Hedorah? Topics of post-war Japan--Alternate subjects and themes that were directly effected by the events following their bombing.
I think Godzilla: King of the Monsters would've been better off had it avoided the topic altogether and found a different way to write in the resuscitation of Godzilla. But that's only one of many writing issues the film has.
And I agree, Godzilla's warning of nuclear proliferation and radioactive hazards will always be present in the character, but how the character evolves from that point is important as well. The liberties taken with Godzilla shows that the character can and will continue to be adapted for present day issues—And it's important that Godzilla stay relevant. The monster was born of the post-war's socio-political climate and he continues to embody ideological shifts caused by that climate in Japanese culture. To reverse engineer that is a completely different issue entirely.
I'll give the Monsterverse this much--for making so many egregious errors in theme and narrative, it has sparked conversation for the specifics behind Godzilla's representation. I believe they're at least topics worth thinking over.
I agree with GH (Gman), what he says about Batman is a very good example.
BTW, it would've been cool to see the fight in Tokyo. But the lighting probably wouldn't have been that good.
Dark does not equate better.
A darker movie, or more serious film, is usually dictated by the story itself. For example, you can make a lighthearted Batman movie--The 1966 Adam West Batman movie did it pretty well with its satire and comedic investment. (Say what you will about how campy and goofy it is, but it was also very comic accurate for the time.)
Now take The Dark Knight. The movie isn't dark for the sake of being dark and serious. It's dark because its story requires it. Its themes of anarchy, escalation and nihilism in a post-9/11 world would be rather difficult to pull off with the tone of the 1966 Batman.
I'm less concerned about the tone of these films, and more concerned with how well said tones fit the stories. As long as said stories work, the tone should as well.
And if you feel the tone isn't always working, ala, comedic beats, that should help inform you about the quality of the story.
I couldn't have said it better.
I wouldn't mind seeing the MonsterVerse having a darker tone.
SarcasticGoji Godzilla embodies Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Castle Bravo, the atomic bomb, the horrors of the Pacific War, and World War II in general, the Consequences of Human Irresponsibility, and the Destruction of War. Okay, Godzilla evolved since 1954, and in the Monsterverse he is a defender of the planet, but not because of that, he stops being what he embodies. When Godzilla, for whatever reason, goes through a city, there are people who die; When he uses the atomic breath, there will be people and buildings irradiated. The presence of different active kaijus threatens the stability of the economies of different countries, and the consequences of fights are a serious issue.
A world with kaijus is a pretty screwed up subject, as well as interesting, and I think R-Rating is the best to adequately portray all of that. On the other hand, the fights between Kaijus are quite violent, but except for the heads of King Ghidorah, there are hardly ever mutilations. Don't think I'm a fan of gore or anything like that, but blood, open wounds, and missing limbs are the best way to show that X attacks X monster damage, and they can serve as a dramatic factor, from graphically showing what that the protagonist Kaiju is suffering, until having the gratifying effect of seeing that evil Kaiju suffer that caused so much damage. To show that sort of thing, a rating below R would require censorship.
On the other hand, there are Kaijus that obligatorily require Classification R, like Gigan. With those blades and saws everywhere, I can't think of a movie where I face another kaiju, without running rivers of blood in the literal sense. In a modern movie, I imagine Gigan as a bloodletter and ripper, who preys on his victims, and runs away with little trouble.
And as for what you say that R-rated movies tend to focus more on adults, what would be the problem? For my part, I prefer a thousand times a mature and dark kaijus film, which is not afraid to show the consequences of the attack / fight, rather than a film designed for children, adolescents, or the whole family, where there is censorship.
This has to be the lamest re-realase sh monsterarts has ever done. they just made new accesories and didnt even bother to fix the derp mouth of the original gigan 2004 figuer!!!!!
First of all, R rated movies tend to be focused more on adults, so it wouldn’t actually attract more people. I think I wrote a topic on this a while back...
This version is boring, not enough action.
Though it does make more sense for Claire and Owen to be together.
Not a fan of you cutting out the only POC character in the movie.
I don't know if you know this movie: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)
in the uncut version this is the most brutal part of the season. I remember the body saw of gigan that makes godzilla bleed pretty bad. Today, this film would definitely get an age rating!
NO R-RATED KAIJU FLICKS
I wouldn’t like to see an R rated kaiju movie.
world of godzilla is most likely dead at this point...
Foreverwing Especially your last sentence contains an interesting aspect. Here I would be interested in what would have come out if Toho & Legendary & Warner had created the monsterverse together.
I agree. That "cheerful" tone ruins several scenes in the movies. Inside the Monsterverse, we have the infamous "gonorrhea" scene in GKoM (I can't understand what kind of writer thought that line was a good idea).
I would go further, and make R-rated kaijus movies, in order to have more visceral fights, and to be able to pose more complex plots, without fear of "the children who only want to see GODzilla raping the monster on duty", and then they They complain with arguments like - "Humans are in the way" -, - "I went to see Godzilla, not humans" -, or the worst - "The plot is unnecessary, I just want to see monster fights" -. Children who ignore what Godzilla is, demand to see a disaster at the level of Michael Bay's Transformers, and complain when the product has something of quality, saying that it is boring.
Although of course, the type of Godzilla movie that I would like to see, I don't know if it suits Hollywood interests, I don't even know if Toho's, although I trust that if "World of Godzilla" is ever made, it will be fairly similar to what I hope, but better.
not so anyway. if i don't understand something, i'll ask.
We all try to understand things, don't take it hardly...
SarcasticGoji that's ok, unfortunately it always takes me a little while to understand. But I try to do my best
I was just kidding when I said more is more, I was just remembering something funny. I didn’t make that clear.
I also believe that in fiction rules can be bent, a story doesn’t always have to be rooted in reality or real world physics, especially if it’s a giant monster series where this exists:
I find it funny that people complain about the Godzilla series not being 100% realistic with radiation, yet when Bruce Banner becomes the Hulk by being bombarded by gamma radiation no one questions it (even though logically, that should kill him). I’m okay with fiction taking creative liberties if it fits the story. Fire can’t naturally exist underwater, but if cartoons want to make jokes about it, I feel like they should be able to.
“Space is warped and time is bendable.” - Mike Nelson
I hope that I still get to see GVK. That is a problem here in Germany with our government, how the pandemic situation is handled. Believe me when I tell you: we are annoyed without end ...
Godzilla Vs. Kong is overall a good movie.
There were just some things that irked me though
I can well imagine. Unfortunately, I still haven't seen GVK. But the stories here in the forum let me suspect nothing good ... special effect, fights top but the others ...
