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HinikunaGoji

I would disagree in saying that the Monsterverse hasn't done much in terms of new ideas. The Hollow Earth is definitely the most prominent of the new ideas, but there are a lot of other ideas that they've introduced or expanded on, such as the hierarchy of the titans and Godzilla being King of the Monsters. Sure there were hints of it in some of the older films like Godzilla leading the charge against Ghidorah in Destroy All Monsters and him giving Anguirus orders in Godzilla vs Gigan, but not to the extent that's been shown within the Monsterverse, with Godzilla and Ghidorah being in a constant power struggle, and the lower ranking titans being loyal to who ever wins. The Monsterverse even brought in more natural relationships with some of the titans, like the MUTOs being a parasitic species to Godzilla and the fact that some of the titans seem to be part of the natural order as opposed to being aberrant creatures that are just run around and destroy things. There are certain ideas that have been brought up that can be explored in the future like, the ancient Titan War and the mystery of the Hollow Earth energy (and how it relates to the titans themselves) Not to mention, how it introduced potential ideas that weren't seen in the older films such as the titans playing a role in Earth's natural history (seriously, how many dinosaurs did they accidentally squash?) along with the start of human civilization and how that ties into our culture and mythology (image a tribe of Neanderthals witnessing a titan battle and then depicting it in cave paintings and other forms of primitive art). The ideas of the Monsterverse may not be as out there as the Reiwa series, but in all honesty it doesn't need to be. I feel like you can balance the traditional ideas with the new out there ideas, introducing something new while not straying too far from what came before and potentially alienating the fans of the older stuff, something that I personally feel that the Polygon Trilogy and Singular Point kind of have a problem with.

SasquaDash

Monsterverse hasn’t really done much new. And the new things it does add are not really criticisable because they’re well made. Take the hollow earth, I’ve seen no criticism on that front. 

Notice that in this discussion only concepts and directors motivations have been defended not the movies as a whole. The anime trilogy has many other problems, like the main character not being interesting until the third movie. 

 HinikunaGoji

No, what I'm saying is that the current Japanese films/series are basically being given a free pass for everything and any criticism towards them is immediately brushed aside and ignored, while the American films get ripped apart for not being exactly how the fanbase wants. It honestly doesn't seem fair. This isn't me trying to start fights, it's really frustrating that whenever I try to speak my mind and whenever I don't agree with the majority on this site I'm being told how I'm "wrong" and then accused of trying to "ruin" or "disrupt" forums or that I'm "conveniently targeting" people. Yes, I mentioned how Gman bashed the Monsterverse writers for coming up with an idea that wasn't exactly what he wanted, but that wasn't an attempt to bring up an old fight, it was responding to the fact that he was giving the Polygon Trilogy a pass for not being "hindered by the constraints and expectations of the series" yet bashes the American movies for having the same reason, which is extremely hypocritical. This has nothing to do with past arguments with Gman, this whole double standard and division has been effecting the fandom a lot in the past few years and honestly I find it extremely troubling.

SasquaDash

He hasn’t said that Monsterverse or The anime trilogy is better, your just comparing you past angers with him to this for no reason. All he’s done is pointed out that the director isn’t just being rude or condescending. And provides evidence. You’ve just resorted back to this. 

He hasn’t mentioned Monsterverse once.

G. H. (Gman)

So if Gareth Edwards, Michael Dougherty or Adam Wingard said or did the same thing as Sesheta and Shizino, you would be 100% okay with it, no complaints what so ever? Because with the logic your using, Legendary should be free to do what ever they want with the franchise because it's their "vision" and "creative choices", yet you pretty much bash the Monsterverse for not being exactly the way you want them to be. You keep mentioning how Toho's bringing new ideas to the series by not following what has been done before ("he wanted a fresh pair of eyes to be unhindered by the constraints and expectations of the series"), yet in an older forum you bashed the careers of the Monsterverse writers because they suggested an idea for a movie that wasn't exactly what you wanted, bashing it for not falling in line with the older Toho movies. So somehow the Japanese movies are free to do whatever they want because it's "new" and "experimental", but if the American movies don't completely fall in line with the previous movies then suddenly their not "respectful enough" to the source material? I find it ironic that people are free to nitpick the Monsterverse and talk crap about the series, creators and fans. Yet if someone tries to criticize the Polygon Trilogy or Singular Point, they're either completely shut down or they're met with other fans criticizing them and telling them that they're "wrong". Seems pretty hypocritical...

BigDave

Agree 110%

Reading into it again though....

Wendy could be in another Females Body just a Female who is more Muscular.  We can ONLY go and Speculate at the Moment.

As i have said it seems the TV show will Tackle the Two Sides of the Coin, that is the Greedy/Rich Corporation Owners vs the Common Person and the Injustice and way that these People will be taken Advantage of.

It will SLOWLY go and Build on Characters... and DEAL with the Threat that A.I would pose....

Before we get into HORROR/DISCOVERY like in ALIEN, which then would become more ACTION HEAVY like ALIENS.

The BIGGEST Concerns for me are..

1)  It will be SET ON EARTH.

2) It will be SET prior to the Prequels, and likely at least 50 Years before ALIEN maybe up to 75 Years Prior.

3) The Ancient Threat could be the Xenomorph/Engineers.

And so the Combination would SURELY make a Mockery of the Prequels... and WELL it will CONFLICT the FRANCHISE too...

IF you are going to Explore the Xenomorph again... then for me you have to... either.

a) Have it SET after 2125 and on ANOTHER WORLD.

b) Have it SET on Earth only if its after the Year 2180.

I guess I jumped the gun on this one, time will tell if they do it right or if its complete RUBBISH

Its too Early to tell Exactly what the Focus will be, we have to ASSUME it will Eventually come down to the Xenomorph.

It does seem that A.I will PLAY a Role in the TV Series, but its Quite HOW this will be.... but it seems its seen as a THREAT..

It could be that Wendy is a MAIN Character though, but all we know is HER SOUL in in the BODY of a Solider and at this POINT we dont know if this would be a Female Solider, or a Male (seems likely).

The other Threat is from a Ancient One... and THIS is were maybe the Xenomorph comes into PLAY which will TOTALLY go and Discredit the Prequels.... but with Ridley Scott on board i think he would NOT be Interested if the TV Series was to TOTALLY RUBBISH his Prequels.

To me i am being drawn to maybe the TV Series will be a ALTERNATIVE CANON.... a Reboot if you would.

IF it is NOT then i cant see HOW this can NOT go and Conflict the Franchise... and Especially the Prequels.

I do have Concerns about the TV Series...... i think you are PLAYING WITH FIRE.... if you are going to make a TV Show that is SET prior to say 2180.

SasquaDash,
Shizuno was not a fan, but I see no evidence of ill will or contempt toward the franchise as a whole. As a matter of fact it was not Shizuno's idea to not watch Godzilla movies--It was Sesheta's. Sesheta brought Shizuno on precisely to keep his fanboy love of the material in check. (Something I wish Dougherty had done.)

"I’ve known Godzilla since I was a child and I understand the significance of Godzilla thoroughly as a professional who is in the film industry. It was easy to imagine how hard the challenge would be, including how to visualize the beauty of tokusatsu, the stylized special effects which are essential to Godzilla, in an anime adaptation ... Our Godzilla has a dominant presence and is a subject to inspire feelings of awe and respect. It’s called ‘kaijuu’ (‘strange beast’ in Japanese), but its existence isn’t simple but more god-like and transcendent. Godzilla makes us wonder if we must fight against it, or accept its existence just like natural disasters.

I decided on the way we would be depicting Godzilla at an early stage. Godzilla is depicted similarly to a sacred tree at a Shinto shrine which is a subject of worship." - Hiroyuki Sesheta [Source]

This doesn't sound like a lead director who has no love for the franchise. As a result it was Shesheta, the Godzilla fan, who insisted Shizuno not watch Godzilla movies, because he had that element covered. [Source] He wanted a fresh pair of eyes to be unhindered by the constraints and expectations of the series:

"He [Shizuno] can appeal to the mainstream, whereas Urobuchi and I are rather geeky types. Shizuno has an ability to adapt any geeky subject for the mainstream. He has a brilliant talent.

I honestly enjoy interacting with Urobuchi and Shizuno. Thanks to them, I was allowed to concentrate on the areas I’m good at and love as much as possible. I relied on them thinking, ‘even though the world of the movie I set is rather geeky, Shizuno will adjust it for the mass market.’ Urobuchi gave authenticity and respectable formality, and Shizuno gave overwhelming mass appeal to the movie. I was able to give many geeky suggestions because of these guys, who I was able to trust greatly." [Source]

"He's pretty much stated that he went out of his way to anger fans and to go against what was established, because in his mind he was 'doing something right'."

This is such a bizarre, hostile read. I'm not sure how sticking with your creative choices equates intentionally trying to anger a fan base. Sesheta's simply explaining that the divisiveness is a confirmation of going outside of expectation. I'm pretty sure a self-proclaimed fan didn't take the job with the intention of angering a fan base. Nor did Rian Johnson--Contrary to popular belief.

TexanGodzilla

exactly

cities are getting taller, & bigger monsters are cooler.

also this sounds like a repeat of Caprica. It made sense with Battlestar Galactica but not Alien since the focus of Alien is supposed to be well ALIENS and not the androids.

I don't mind the conciseness transference if it was further up the timeline let say between Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection

"Replicas' 2017, i think the Scientist transfers his consciousness to a robot. It's a very interesting movie"

This kind of thing has been done before in other Movies to Various Degrees....  It depends on HOW its done within the ALIEN Franchise.... but then my Idea i had for Prometheus 2 was Very Similar in 2013.... it would DEAL with WHY we had David Created and Weylands True Agenda.... to do just this... Transfer a Human Soul to a A.I so that Weyland could become IMMORTAL.... but it had Flaws as the A.I would NOT be able to Handle the Emotions and would GO......MAD!

The END of this Plot we would see Project Rook become Activated and UPLOAD the Soul of Weyland into the Computer Systems.

"first showing the society of the  homeworld (earth) that Will lead mankind to the moon  LV-426."

Looking into the PLOT it seems to Indicate that it would be SET on Earth, we see a Structure that looks Engineer in Aesthetic, and Submerged in Water.... were there are Face Huggers.... this would Indicate the Discovery of a SUNKEN Structure... either a OUTPOST or SHIP.

Which will LIKELY be Discovered on Earth!

IF this is the PLOT... i think it could WORK if its SET like after ALIENS...... and also on another PLANET...

But on Earth and Prior to the Prequels is ASKING for Trouble/Conflict.... Especially when it could be set between 2045-2055

We are about 100 Years away from ALIEN.... the NOT TOO DISTANT to me does-not imply 50+ Years.  And so i am Expecting it to be SET within 25-50 Years.... which is a Concern for me.

Can we leave identity politics out of this, I mean the alien franchise has been through enough.

I would rather focus on learning more about the Aliens and their creators and the corporation's plans on getting their hands on a xenomorph, not this "oh wouldn't this be cool if we include a transgender character to make this series more human centric" 

such a wasted potential this tv series is becoming. Why not make an original IP instead? I just don't understand why can't they have an ALIEN tv series set between Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection or between Alien and Aliens

I think its too Early to Speculate much about this TV Series being WOKEN... i think there has been a Insurgence of inclusive Programing/Movies over the PAST FEW YEARS.

I dont see this being too much of a PROBLEM, provided it also Focuses on other Elements and does-not get TOO TIED down with some Political Inclusions.

There is a lot more OPENNESS regarding the LGBT Community nowadays Compared to in the 70's and 80's, and also in Regards to Gender Identification.

Hearing about Gender Identification and Particularly being GENDER FLUID is something that would seem a ALIEN Concept back 30-40+ Years ago. There is more OPENNESS towards it and more Acceptance than there was 30+ Years ago and i can ONLY go and ASSUME it would become more Normal and Accepted in 30+ Years Time.

And so IF we have Characters who are GAY or Identify as a Different Sex than they was BORN with, or those who DO-NOT IDENTIFY as any SEX, i dont think thats out of Place in the FUTURE i think it would be more Common than we have NOW, and so IF they Choose this for the TV Series then i DO-NOT see a Problem, as LONG as the Emphasis does not Distract from other PARTS of the PLOT and Characters and IF its Well Written and NOT just ADDED for the Sake of it.

Looking at Gender Identification then MAYBE this is what they are doing with the Character WENDY.... IF she is a Female Soul who is NOW in a Male Solider Body this could be a Clever Way of doing the Gender Identification,  i am NOT saying this would be the CASE... and if they do such a thing then it MAYBE could UPSET those who think that this is a FORCED Attempt.. and False... instead of Dealing with the Reality that some People do Grow up and Feel Emotionally, Spiritually they are NOT in the RIGHT BODY as far as SEX.

Maybe a BETTER way to take on such a Concept would be to have a Masculine Female Character much like  Vasquez from ALIENS and have this Character go and Identify as a MALE.

The Gender Fluid Subject is something that you would Expect from a Synthetic... WHY do we have to have Female/Male Synthetics instead of just GENDER NEUTRAL?

Maybe you could have a Attempt of Scientist, Transferring the Soul of a Human who Identifies as Gender Fluid into a Gender Neutral Synthetic Body?  Or maybe this kind of PLOT is something thats BEST to be Explored in its OWN Sci-Fi Movie.

In Reality as Technology goes and Advances, then in 50, 100 Years those who FEEL they are Trapped in the Wrong Sex Body would likely have means to Obtain the BODY they Identify with.  Should we EVER get to the Point when we can Attempt to Transcend a Human Soul into a Robot... i am sure that those who Identify as Gender Fluid or do-not Identify with the Aesthetic Sex they are Born with would be WILLING to take Part in such Experiments.

The Question is should we EXPLORE these within the ALIEN FRANCHISE?

So maybe the Wendy in the Body of a Male Solider could be a more Subtle way of doing it?

now the ALIEN tv series is going to become another run of the mill sci-fi tv show, can't wait for the dumb groundhog day episodes

Oh I hated Battlestar Galactica especially after the first season

Transferring consciousness to synthetic bodies remembers me the Cylons from the fantastic TV show 'Battlestar Galactica'.

Transferring human consciousness to synthetic bodies contradicts hugely the old Peter Weyland's fragile existence in the movie 'Prometheus'. Why Search for eternal Youth, if you can transfer your consciousness to a synthetic body?

SasquaDash

That still doesn’t compare to 1998, it was bad marketing and wasn’t honest but no where near over the top. 

In the movie 'Replicas' 2017, i think the Scientist transfers his consciousness to a robot. It's a very interesting movie.

I saw a movie, 'Replicas' 2017, Starred by Keanu Reeves, where a scientist stores human consciousness in a computer and then transfers it to human clones. Amazing.

Here's the trailer:

https://youtu.be/JAHKQPBKSZ8

HinikunaGoji

It wasn't really the fans making assumptions though, Mechagodzilla was pretty much the main focus of the marketing campaign, with Mechagodzilla being on all the posters and the fact that a ton of merchandise of Mechagodzilla was released, including toys, key chains, and clothing just to name a few, they honestly put more focus into marketing Mechagodzilla than they did for Godzilla himself. An official plot synopsis even flat out stated that Godzilla would be battling Mechagodzilla in the film.

Ok then....

sonictiger

nobody ripped off anybody it’s not an original idea

speaking of Steven Spielberg, one of the first jurassic park movie's influence was Mothra 1961

Yeah Universal ripped off of Godzilla Vs. Biollante in my opinion.

As long as Legendary uses Biollante, they can do whatever they want.

to be frank, the original Jurassic Park novel is based around genetically modified organisms and was being written when Godzilla vs Biollante came out. Not saying Michael Crichton saw Godzilla vs Biollante prior to writing Jurassic Park but when being filmed into the first movie, I bet Steven Spielberg more than likely seen Godzilla vs Biollante since he is a kaiju fan

SasquaDash

I don’t appriciate the comments of the directors. But you realize I mean that Godzilla 1998 was literally EVERYWHERE. I’m not even exaggerating.

And building up to the “fight” is not marketing its build up for the sequels. And planet of the monsters never ever showed other monsters in its trailer, and city of mechagodzilla only mentioned the monsters name. It was fans who made assumptions. Trailers didn’t promise anything. And I went back to check the trailers. Non of the things people were expecting or raging about afterward we’re in the trailer.

but I blame the City on the edge of battle posters

G. H. (Gman)

Here's a screenshot from the article:

Other interviews stated that, despite not knowing what the Godzilla series was about, he actively chose not to watch any of the older films because he felt that he didn't need to. He didn't know much about the franchise and clearly didn't bother with finding out what it was about or what it's appeal was, pretty much showing how little he cared. I also find the fact that he questioned "Does he really have to breathe fire?" and the fact that he thought omitting it would be "interesting", kind of ironic, because the 1998 film was bashed for the same mindset.

As for Sesheta, his statement of, “We welcome getting bashed by the traditionalists. That proves more than anything we succeeded in creating something different.” is pretty telling towards his view of the franchise and its fans. He's pretty much stated that he went out of his way to anger fans and to go against what was established, because in his mind he was "doing something right". If he really cared about the franchise, why would he go out of his way to anger and alienate the fanbase? This is basically like how Rian Johnson went out of his way to anger Star Wars because he viewed the backlash as him "winning". Sesheta's comments about traditionalists not liking the films because they were "too complicated" for them are pretty insulting, not only is he basically implying that the "traditionalist" are too dumb to understand his work, but he's basically trying to inflate his own ego, pretty much saying that his work is "perfect" and it's "the fans fault" for it not doing well. His statements come off as extremely narcissistic and really shows how little he actually cares.

Other statements that they made, such as, "Do you think a Godzilla-Store would work in the 90's?" are also pretty arrogant. As if they think that their work on the franchise is the only reason why it's successful. 

Imagine if the team involved with the Monsterverse acted this way and said these statements, the fanbase would have a fit, accusing them of not caring for the franchise and disrespecting the legacy of the series, demanding that they loose the rights to make Godzilla films immediately. Yet the team working on the Polygon Trilogy said this and, for some reason, they're getting a free pass.

HinikunaGoji

"And the 1998 advertising campaign also helped generate hate for the movie"

The advertising campaign for the Polygon Trilogy is worse though. While 1998 had a more secretive campaign of not fully showing the audience what Godzilla was like, the Polygon Trilogy is straight up guilty for false advertisement. Planet of the Monsters advertised an "planet of monsters" featuring classic Toho Kaiju, they instead gave us a planet with very little monsters and the Toho kaiju were nothing more than 5 five second cameos, with some not even showing up (Hedorah is only name dropped and Rodan and Anguirus were dead before the movie even started). The advertisements for City on the Edge of Battle had a huge focus on Godzilla fighting Mechagodzilla, only for Mechagodzilla to NOT show up and instead they had him as a city that didn't even do anything to fight Godzilla. The Planet Eater's advertisements focused heavily on Godzilla fighting King Ghidorah, only for the movie to have one of the laziest "fights" in the entire franchise (if you could call it a fight) with the Ghidorah heads latching on to Godzilla and basically doing nothing for about ten minutes and then Godzilla one-shoting each of the heads. Not to mention that they built up that "fight" for three movies. None of the three films actually delivered on what they advertised to people, they essentially used the marketing to get people to watch the films, promising something that they never intended to give. Then they have the nerve to say that the fans are at fault for being disappointed. 

cool

So by that logic did Jurassic World rip off Godzilla vs. Biollante from 26 years before it or...

sonictiger

its not like Jurassic world did GMO first

Biollante

I am really not feeling this TV series, for starters setting in the near future means were getting a more or less present day setting with some future sci-fi aesthetics. 

The plot is confirmed to be set on Earth, which coincides with the near future setting contrasting the distant future setting of the films.

Now this plot dealing with humans transferring bodies...why does this sound more like Star Trek instead of Alien? I mean if this was set around Alien Resurrection time period, mind transference would be a different story but not so close to the present day.

Three strikes and you are out!

Let's face it, GMTs would be ripping off of Jurassic World and frankly I doubt that the MonsterVerse would be executing this tired GMO concept better than JW.

Just saying.

Bigger the better imo

well this went off topic really fast

SasquaDash

it was a device to show passage of time. Godzilla earth was already impossibly powerful when he was 150 ft